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Users unblocking themself

Hi all,

Recently a user has been evading their topic ban multiple times, without any regard for the seriousness of this and reinforcing why it was made in the first place. I temporarily blocked this user for 3 days, and considered removing their sysop permissions to prevent them from unblocking themself but decided not to because I thought I could trust them not to.

Apparently not, because they ended up unblocking themselves.

While sysops do have the unblockself permission, my understanding of this is that it is supposed to be because of test blocks by sysops. I certainly don't think it is OK for users to be unblocking themselves as the recipient of actions, and I don't think anyone else would either.

It doesn't appear anyone else has commented on this problem, as due to the recent stepping down of the two most active consuls. The only user who had a chance to review this problem only reviewed the technical aspects of it. As a result, I think the community should make a plan on how to handle this situation.

Since there isn't an active community at this time, if there are not any objections from anyone (other than BrandonWM themself) I will reinstate the block as an emergency measure. While I was initially under the impression that this would constitute wheel warring, I realized that the policy generally only applies to other sysops reversing actions, and is not intended to apply to users receiving blocks, and this would almost certainly be considered block evasion by any reasonable person. However, I don't have any plans on how to solve this problem long-term, other than either via removing unblockself from sysops (might cause problems for testing blocks?) or a bot that removes them (depending on who blocked). Naleksuh (talk) 03:39, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I suggest that only bureaucrats and consuls have this right. AlPaD (talk) 18:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

We may create another blocking level rather than current blocks which only available for crat's and consuls. Current blocks may use for testing purposes. —MdsShakil (talk) 05:16, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Since I don't think another blocking level is possible, my suggestion would be to use wgRevokePermissions and to create a new group that can be assigned to users blocked for serious reasons so that they are unable to unblock themselves. Reception123 (talk) 06:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

It's a good idea, I agree! AlPaD (talk) 11:32, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

At that point, why not simply remove the sysop permissions? Naleksuh (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Also, does the community believe BrandonWM's block was valid? I had said before if there were no objections I would reblock them. One user claimed the block was a "clear error" but did not have a convincing case as to why. I think the topic ban violation is clearly verifiable, see talk page for that, and does not appear to be in error. I would assume by the comments the community agrees it is valid but most people are talking about the problem in general and not this specific case. Naleksuh (talk) 16:28, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I forgot to mention, that even if admins don't have the right to unblock themselves, if it's a partial block the user isn't considered "blocked" so they can still do it. Probably only removing administrator permission is feasibility. AlPaD (talk) 16:35, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that it appears that if you have talk page access on you can also delete and protect your talk page. Also also, a blocked user who is a sysop can still block the person who blocked them, this change is because of compromised sysop accounts. Naleksuh (talk) 16:40, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Again, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Void had the hard-line restrictions removed. BrandonWM (talk - contribs) 23:40, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

BrandonWM, you are correct, as per what is clearly stated on your talk page both by myself and Void.

Everyone else, please check his talk page before jumping to conclusions and give him a break. I regret blocking him. Kiko4564 (talk) 07:41, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Void did not remove the restrictions. They removed Kiko4564's block and suggested reducing the restrictions. You are ignoring the fact that you violated your topic ban and also unblocked yourself, which is a much more important problem. In addition, a consul has already participated in this discussion and proposed a solution to the problem of users unblocking themself, despite Kiko4564 pretending it was completely fine for users to do that as long as they themself believe the block was wrong. And even if they were removed, you still violated them prior to that comment. Trying to excuse the fact that you violated the topic ban and also the fact that the edits were disruptive just reinforces why there was a need for a topic ban to have been made in the first place. Naleksuh (talk) 16:01, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Per our conversation on IRC, I am posting my rationale for using the unblockself permission. I believe the block was wrongly made and poorly justified. I had received messages of support from other crats in the hours before using the permission, and as such I felt comfortable in using it. If I had been alone in believing the block was wrong, I wouldn't have removed it, and instead elected to wait for another member of the community to remove the block. Void had also removed the hard-line restrictions, and as my edits were non-disruptive, there was no need for a block. BrandonWM (talk - contribs) 04:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

This is not true at all.

I had received messages of support from other crats in the hours before using the permission Actually, no, you received no such messages between being blocked and unblocking yourself. There were no messages of support from other crats when you decided on your own it was wrong and removed it. Even after the fact only one person agreed that it was OK for you to unblock yourself (not "other crats" plural) - with four users including a consul agreeing it was not OK.

and as such I felt comfortable in using it You shouldn't have. It will never be OK for a user to unblock themself, especially as seen in this discussion. If it was really that bad someone else will. There's no need for you to remove it yourself.

If I had been alone in believing the block was wrong, I wouldn't have removed it You were. And if you weren't, why didn't those people remove it?

Void had also removed the hard-line restrictions Again, Void did not remove the restrictions. What Void actually said was: I propose the restriction be reduced down to a general recommendation against making any "official" style changes without prior on-wiki approval, and an understanding that less leniency will be given in the event of future disruption. - the restrictions were not removed and remain in effect. In addition, I would call this the less leniency in the event of future disruption, as will be seen soon.

s my edits were non-disruptive Firstly, it doesn't matter whether they were disruptive. You violated your topic ban and that's not okay. Topic bans are enforced by blocking the user if they violate it. If you believed you could have made good edits in those areas, you should have requested removal, not simply violated it. As explained before, A ban is not merely a request to avoid editing "unless they behave". The measure of a ban is that even if the editor were to make good edits, permitting them to edit in those areas is perceived to pose enough risk of disruption, issues, or harm, that they may not edit at all, even if the edits seem good.. Amen. I don't think I could have said it better myself.

And secondly, they were disruptive. For example this unnecessary removal, this innapropriate self-handling, and interacting with other users.

Because of this, I do not see any valid justification for your actions. In addition, several users have agreed it is not okay for recipients of non-test blocks to unblock themselves, instead taking any of their concerns to a bureaucrat or consul. In addition, the original block has not been proven to be incorrect, and continues to only show to be more and more justified with the user attempting to justify their topic-ban evasion and justification of self-unblocks, repeating the behavior that led to that in the first place and reminding me of why they were blocked and locked originally in 2020, despite their claims to have changed. Because of this, I propose that the original block is reinstated. Please leave your thoughts and / or concerns below. Naleksuh (talk) 04:58, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

In which case User:Naleksuh, please wait for a Consul to attend to this incident and deal with this directly, instead of wheel warring with a Consul over whether or not User:BrandonWM ought to be blocked or not, even partially. I've blocked User:BrandonWM myself, and all I said was that if User:Void deemed it fit to remove the block I imposed, then so be it, and if you don't think that User:BrandonWM should've been unblocked, then you were in the wrong to engage in a wheel war, and therefore (on this occasion) User:BrandonWM was right to remove the block because: 1) it was wrong, having resulted from clear cut wheel warring and based on restrictions which had already been removed and 2) I agreed that it was right to remove it since I believed that it was a clear cut mistake. If the incident isn't serious enough to warrant desysoping, then my opinion is that it cannot serious enough to warrant a serious block. However I could be wrong. If you disagree, then please discuss the matter civilly instead of wheel warring. I never pretended that it was OK for an admin to unblock themselves just because they disagree with the block. If it were, then almost everyone would unblock themselves. Thanks. Kiko4564 (talk) 23:11, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

discuss the matter civilly instead of wheel warring I did not wheel war. BrandonWM removed the block, and it has not been reinstated since. It may be reinstated when this discussion is closed, as consensus is that it is not okay for users to unblock themself. But I certainly have not wheel warred. In fact, this thread was specifically to avoid doing so.

BrandonWM was right to remove the block Consensus is in this thread that it is never okay for serious-blocked users to unblock themself. There will never be a situation in which the user who was blocked was right to remove the block. And even if there was, this situation would not be one of them.

restrictions which had already been removed For the third time, Void specifically said they proposed removing the restrictions, which did not gain much support and I personally would oppose. As of now the restrictions remain in effect. Please stop saying they were removed both because Void did not say that and even if they did I'm not sure consuls are allowed to unliterally do that.

To any uninvolved consuls now is a good time to close this discussion which has already run its course. Four users including a consul agree that self-unblocks are not OK, and by extension I believe they should be considered block evasion. In the words of Reception123 one of the uninvolved participants and a consul, [They] should've just asked another bureaucrat or consul though, not taken things into [their] own hands Naleksuh (talk) 00:51, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Alright, we'll agree to disagree then. I'm just saying that had you continued, the result would've been a wheel war. Thanks for not doing that. I'll let Void explain their actions personally. Kiko4564 (talk) 11:14, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

AutoImport and old requests for permissions

Hello! This bot has archived the topics in Archive 12 instead of archive 13. Could someone please see it? Thanks! AlPaD (talk) 06:25, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Request for Consulship

Hi everyone, I'm Agent Isai and I'm requesting local consul here on testwiki. While I'm not the most active here on TestWiki due to my other global responsibilities such as being a Steward, I do check in every so often and generally have to look in to this wiki every few days due to other cross-wiki cases such as abuse by socks and so on. The reason for requesting the bit is because the current Consuls seem to be inactive. Dmehus used to be the main handler of things like inactivity demotions but he, nor has anyone else, handled this since May which is concerning. There are also a few other tasks which sometimes seem to drag on due to the inactivity of the current consuls so I'd like to help the upkeep of this community which is vital to Miraheze as it serves as a testbed for many users. Thank you for your consideration. Agent Isai ^{Talk to me!} 14:46, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support Trusted, experienced, active user and steward. AlPaD (talk) 14:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support --Syunsyunminmin (talk) 14:59, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Enable PortableInfoboxCreator

I would like to request that a bureaucrat enable this as I need it for template testing and I lack bureaucratic rights. Blad (talk) 23:44, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

@Blad, do you mean you want bureaucrat permissions? If you want it, you can request it at TW:RfP after 3 more edits. Syunsyunminmin (talk) 06:26, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I am not. I was requesting a bureaucrat to enable an extension as I lack those rights. If I were able to request bureaucrat, I would've gone there instead. Blad (talk) 11:48, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

sorry. I don't understand exactly what you want. I expect a response by other crat or consul. Syunsyunminmin (talk) 13:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Aright, that's fine. Blad (talk) 13:23, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

What extension is PortableInfoboxCreator? It doesn't seem to exist. Agent Isai ^{Talk to me!} 13:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

It should be this one. I had made an error in the extension name. Blad (talk) 14:03, 8 November 2022 (UTC)