TestWiki:Community portal: Difference between revisions

== TestWiki RFC ==

Hello everyone. These are some proposals I have thought about for a while, and some people also discussed off-wiki. Discuss if you agree with them or not.

=== Proposal 1: Change the domain of test wiki from publictestwiki.com to test.miraheze.org ===

Reasoning: I find custom domains to not work well and have issues, and the publictestwiki.com domain in particular is a clunky one. It also disconnects the wiki from Miraheze. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 23:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Support (4) ====

#{{Support|strong}} Absolutely. No clue why a domain that wasn't .miraheze.org was used. This is a Miraheze project, it should be treated as such. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 16:17, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

#: Well, it isn't officially (see proposal 2 + Agent Isai's Meta RfC). [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 17:33, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

#{{Support}} It's better as link. [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 21:03, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

# [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 01:13, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

#{{Support}} [[w:sunk cost fallacy]] isn't a good reason to keep the domain. [[User:Collei|Collei]] ([[User talk:Collei|talk]]) 03:43, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

#{{Support}} I support the inversion as proposed by Naleksuh for the existing domain to prevent breakages with existing links. If the intent (as I read it from context) is no longer to maintain a stand-alone non-miraheze instance for wiki testing, we should phase out discrete domains where it isn't relevant. --[[User:NotAracham|NotAracham]] ([[User talk:NotAracham|talk]]) 03:46, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

#:good idea [[User:Collei|Collei]] ([[User talk:Collei|talk]]) 04:15, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Abstain (1) ====

==== Oppose (1) ====

# {{Oppose}} The timing of this proposal is quite unfortunate since the domain was just renewed and paid for a few days ago. I don't believe wasting money is a good idea and we've had this domain for 7.5 years now so another year wouldn't hurt. Otherwise this discussion was had at launch and it was thought that it would be more appealing to have a custom domain rather than just have "test.miraheze.org" which could appear as just being a test wiki in the sense of sysadmins testing stuff, kind of like what Beta is. Either way, if this would be done I'd suggest at least waiting till the domain expiry so the money wasn't spent for nothing. As for claims that custom domains "don't work well", I haven't encountered any issues with domains so I'm not sure where that's coming from. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 18:44, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#: But you supported test wiki becoming an official Miraheze project. That can't happen if the domain doesn't move to Miraheze. As for paying for the domain, this is a slightly more valid issue, however, the flipside is that the domain was renewed without consensus to do so, so they essentially took a gamble on spending their own money. So, do you oppose changing the domain, or do you support it becoming a Miraheze project? It can't be both. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:57, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#:: Also, the money wouldn't be "spent for nothing" because the redirect would still work but in reverse. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:58, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#:::Regarding consensus to renew the domain, the fact that it's been renewed each year during 7 years before means that there was implicit consensus to renew it again given the community didn't initiate these proposals before. It wouldn't make sense to have to ask every year if the community agrees to renew the domain again, I'm almost certain that no other wiki with a custom domain does this. As for the official project argument, having a custom domain doesn't mean that it can't be an official project in my opinion. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 17:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

#:::: It does, because then it's not on a Miraheze domain. I think other people pointed this out on IRC before. Imagine our list of projects being dev.miraheze.org, commons.miraheze.org, meta.miraheze.org, publictestwiki.com... what absurdity that would be. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:11, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

#:[[w:sunk cost fallacy]] [[User:Collei|Collei]] ([[User talk:Collei|talk]]) 03:46, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Comments (1) ====

=== Proposal 2: Make TestWiki an "official" Miraheze project ===

Not sure if this needs to be discussed on Meta, but a good idea for 1) what is already defacto the case 2) makes it easier to point people requesting test wikis here. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 23:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Support (2) ====

#{{Support|strong}} I believe this is already a thing, so this move should just be for procedural purposes. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 16:18, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

#{{Support}} per RfC on Meta. [[User:Agent Isai|<span style="color:skyblue">'''Agent</span><span style="color:lime;" > Isai'''</span>]] ^{[[m:User talk:Agent Isai|<span style="color:orange;">'''Talk to me!'''</span>]]} 17:04, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

# {{Support}} per RfC on Meta. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 18:44, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#{{Support|Strong}} Per above. [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 21:05, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

# {{support}} per above. [[User:Tali64³|Tali64³]] ([[User talk:Tali64³|talk]]) 00:54, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

# {{support}} good idea, same as others, also maybe the support !vote count needs to be fixed, seems wrong. [[User:Collei|Collei]] ([[User talk:Collei|talk]]) 03:45, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

# {{support}} reiterating my support here. --[[User:NotAracham|NotAracham]] ([[User talk:NotAracham|talk]]) 03:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Abstain (2) ====

==== Oppose (2) ====

==== Comments (2) ====

=== Proposal 3: Remove inactivity exemptions ===

{{discussion top|1={{Done|Successful}} Agent Isai has implemented this proposal already, as a result this discussion is moot. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 16:25, 20 January 2023 (UTC)}}

The majority of them are not granted for great reasons (in particular, just being a consul is not a good reason, and arguably inactivity should apply '''more''' to consuls than to sysops/bureaucrats). I would be open to keeping one or two of them but that is all. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 23:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Support (3) ====

#{{Support|strong}} There's not really a point for all them exemptions, I agree with [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]]. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 16:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Abstain (3) ====

==== Oppose (3) ====

==== Comments (3) ====

{{discussion bottom}}

=== Proposal 4: Test out proxy blocking here ===

This was discussed before but discussion fizzled out. This is one possible solution to the spam problem on test wiki. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 23:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Support (4) ====

#{{Support}} This seems reasonable, it is a <i>test</i> wiki after all. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 16:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Abstain (4) ====

==== Oppose (4) ====

==== Comments (4) ====

#We do want to implement StopForumSpam globally after the 1.39 update, as WMF does want to do eventually, so it may be best to also see how that pans out first. [[User:Agent Isai|<span style="color:skyblue">'''Agent</span><span style="color:lime;" > Isai'''</span>]] ^{[[m:User talk:Agent Isai|<span style="color:orange;">'''Talk to me!'''</span>]]} 17:06, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

# As I've said before, any implementation where Stewards/GS can't verify which IPs are blocked (and be able to generate such a list ourselves) it wouldn't be acceptable. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 18:30, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#:{{hidden ping|Agent Isai}}{{hidden ping|Reception123}}As the primary user involved in this proxy-blocking idea is you, {{ping|Naleksuh}} what would be your preferred format for how this proxy blocking would work on TestWiki? If it's a larger discussion, perhaps it should be a separate RfC, and if there's some level of disagreement on how the whole thing would shake out, an advisory post could be made on the Meta community noticeboard to see what the Miraheze community thinks about the proposal. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 18:38, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#::The main idea would be that any list of IPs would have to be able to be generated by Stewards with set parameters. As in, we wouldn't accept a large list of IPs presented by a non-Steward user where we have no way of verifying exactly how it was generated and the possibility of false positives. Any mass-blockings should also be coordinated with SRE to avoid issues such as the CVTbot which happened yesterday. I'm only referring to the global level of course, since "test out here" implies that it's eventually meant to apply globally.[[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 18:47, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#::: <s>Stewards have no role in test wiki. It's not their concern what local blocks are placed here. The only hold-up I see is the CVTbot related issue. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:48, 21 January 2023 (UTC)</s>

#::: Looks like there is an edit conflict. I still don't see why exactly the actions of one person become the responsibility of an independent group of individuals (i.e. there is no "collection of stewards"). [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:49, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#::::It could be one Steward but my point is the responsibility to block IPs belongs to Stewards and Global Sysops and at least speaking for myself I can't just accept a list if I can't confirm how it was generated. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 17:36, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

#::::: OK, then why don't you confirm the list then? Or maybe I will take myself over to RfGR. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 21:43, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Proposal 5: Change test wiki logo ===

This was not something I personally thought about, but other people discussed. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 23:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Support (5) ====

#{{Support|strong}} Would be nice, the old logo is quite outdated. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 16:18, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

#: I thought about it and this proposal can't really go anywhere. What happens if this proposal is successful but there's no logo to change it to? [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 07:07, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#::{{ping|Naleksuh}} CosmicAlpha is currently developing a new logo for TestWiki. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 17:41, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#:::{{ping|BrandonWM}}{{hidden ping|Universal Omega}} Well, I would like to see it before I !vote. What if I prefer the current one? [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 18:26, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

#::::{{ping|Naleksuh}} Of course. I'm not sure if CosmicAlpha has gotten around to creating the logo yet, I know he's extremely busy, what with the impending MediaWiki 1.39 update in a few hours and such. After that is complete, I can try and follow up with him, though he's already pinged here so I suppose he'll see it regardless in a bit. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 18:29, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Abstain (5) ====

# {{Abstain}} If someone thinks they can design a better version I've got nothing against that, but at the same time I do like the current one. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 18:44, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Oppose (5) ====

==== Comments (5) ====