TestWiki:Requests for Comment/Establishing an RfC process on TestWiki: Difference between revisions
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<div class="boilerplate metadata discussion-archived" style="background-color: #F2F4FC; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa"> |
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:The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. |
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::This RfC is closed as follows: |
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::Proposal 1 - Successful |
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::Proposal 2 - The main concern against this proposal is that the TestWiki system will become more bureaucratic but this concern seems more directed towards the whole RfC rather than this specific proposal. While this proposal is theoretically successful if we count !votes, due to the arguments from the opposers, it is closed as no consensus. This means that the current RfC page will remain but there is no requirement to use it and the Community portal can be used instead as desired by each proposer. If a future discussion seeks to clarify what to do with this page, nothing impedes it. |
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::Proposal 3 - Successful. |
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::Proposal 3.1 - Successful. |
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::Proposal 4 - Successful. |
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::Proposal 5 - Successful. [[User:Agent Isai|<span style="color:skyblue">'''Agent</span><span style="color:lime;" > Isai'''</span>]] <sup>[[m:User talk:Agent Isai|<span style="color:orange;">'''Talk to me!'''</span>]]</sup> 03:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC) |
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As TestWiki grows, there'll evidently be a need to propose new policies which require community consensus first. This is usually handled by the [[TestWiki:Community portal|Community portal]] but recently, the two RfCs on there did clog it up a bit. It may be best to formally set up a venue to make Requests for Comment in. |
As TestWiki grows, there'll evidently be a need to propose new policies which require community consensus first. This is usually handled by the [[TestWiki:Community portal|Community portal]] but recently, the two RfCs on there did clog it up a bit. It may be best to formally set up a venue to make Requests for Comment in. |
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# {{support}} [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 14:55, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 14:55, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 05:43, 16 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Syunsyunminmin|Syunsyunminmin]] ([[User talk:Syunsyunminmin|talk]]) 17:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:LisafBia|LisafBia]] ([[User talk:LisafBia|talk]]) 11:26, 3 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Abstain (1) === |
=== Abstain (1) === |
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=== Oppose (1) === |
=== Oppose (1) === |
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# {{oppose}} TestWiki is a small wiki and this would only increase bureaucracy. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:40, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{oppose}} TestWiki is a small wiki and this would only increase bureaucracy. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:40, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Oppose|Strong}} Testwiki is explicitly a wiki for testing mediawiki settings and features. While certain individuals may have made extensive use of this wiki, it's intended purpose (and audience) is global and for those stopping by infrequently to test features. An RfC process hosted here inherently has low visibility and allows for unusual decisions to be made without representative community input, for this reason I suggest that Meta, not testwiki, is the appropriate place to discuss policy changes given the greater global traffic. --[[User:NotAracham|NotAracham]] ([[User talk:NotAracham|talk]]) 20:57, 8 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== Proposal 2 (RfC page) == |
== Proposal 2 (RfC page) == |
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# {{support}} [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} I would have opposed if only this page isn't a subpage of the Request for Comment page and if that page doesn't exist at all, well, the inverse is the case, so no choice. [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 14:59, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} I would have opposed if only this page isn't a subpage of the Request for Comment page and if that page doesn't exist at all, well, the inverse is the case, so no choice. [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 14:59, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 05:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Support}} [[User:Sakura emad|🌸 Sakura emad 💖]] ([[User talk:Sakura emad|talk]]) 15:59, 7 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Abstain (2) === |
=== Abstain (2) === |
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# Why did you have to make an RfC about the new process using the new process? Why not post on the community portal instead of effectively bootstrapping your own proposals? Also, Test Wiki is *less* active now than it was 3 years ago, so not sure what purpose this serves. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 17:33, 29 January 2023 (UTC) |
# Why did you have to make an RfC about the new process using the new process? Why not post on the community portal instead of effectively bootstrapping your own proposals? Also, Test Wiki is *less* active now than it was 3 years ago, so not sure what purpose this serves. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 17:33, 29 January 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Oppose}} per Naleksuh and rationale of increasing bureaucracy. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:41, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{Oppose}} per Naleksuh and rationale of increasing bureaucracy. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:41, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Oppose}} I am not exactly planning on voting on the rest of this RfC, but to me this proposal seems pointless, I would have preferred if this was kept on the community portal, and the fact that an RfC was created using the proposed policy about said policy makes this even more pointless and I completely oppose that idea due to the fact it had not yet been determined (hence this proposal) when this RfC was created using this new proposal, practically forcing it with no choice. [[User:Universal Omega|Universal Omega]] ([[User talk:Universal Omega|talk]]) 00:52, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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#: The fact that other RfCs were already moved to the subpages as well makes me {{oppose}} this even stronger. It shows that this proposal had no need to even exist if it is being done anyway, and shows a blatant disregard for this RfC proposal in the first place since it hadn't even been closed yet. [[User:Universal Omega|Universal Omega]] ([[User talk:Universal Omega|talk]]) 08:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Oppose}} TestWiki is a project with a limited purpose: to allow users to test out different MediaWiki tools and functions. Some minimal policy to ensure that the project isn't abused and is used fairly have to exist but I simply can't imagine what other policies would ever be necessary on TestWiki even if it grows since its purpose is so straightforward. I don't think RfCs are at all necessary on a project such as TestWiki and that if by any chance there's a policy proposal every once in a while (which as I explain above I think would be rare) it can be done via Community Portal. I also agree that it adds unnecessary bureaucracy to a small project that isn't in need of such a process, unlike Meta. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 19:10, 8 March 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{oppose}} I don't feel strongly about this although I think it would be another step to my wider issue with testwiki: overly bureaucratic. I wouldn't suggest people use this wiki already for that reason and this would be another step down the road as there's not much reason to introduce yet another 'mechanism' that isn't functionally necessary. Also, Ugo's oppose sounds a lot like an oppose by proxy to me. Finally the nature of these discussions very much puts the cart before the horse (doing an rfc about having an rfc page on a page that isn't yet validated) and imo is an overstep. --[[User:Raidarr|Raidarr]] ([[User talk:Raidarr|talk]]) 21:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC) |
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#:In addition to my comments above I feel like I should make clear that I fully share Raidarr's opinion here and my reasoning doesn't only apply to this RfC but in general RfC we need to strive to not allow TestWiki to become a too bureaucratic place where users feel unwelcome to use it because there's too many steps or rules. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 21:06, 8 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Comments (2) === |
=== Comments (2) === |
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#: I found this wiki when db141 happened. So I was exploring and did not know what this wiki was for. Just wanted to make this point because I was never directed here and I guess that was because I did not have need of it at the time and this may be the source of my confusion. |
#: I found this wiki when db141 happened. So I was exploring and did not know what this wiki was for. Just wanted to make this point because I was never directed here and I guess that was because I did not have need of it at the time and this may be the source of my confusion. |
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#: I don't really understand the impact of the custom name (as mentioned in the meta RfC). Also, I don't quite understand what this RfC is saying. I never got around to actually using the testwiki. I think I was nervous that I would break it or something. But if becomes an official project that would generate more helpful documentation and examples, then I think it'll be fantastic. Normally, a wiki wiki in my head looks like there's someone to ask questions about. When I first found TestWiki, I thought it was some kind of construct (not an actual wiki). Now I know it is a wiki but I guess I'm still too new to what bureaucrats and admins can do that I don't even know what I can experiment at TestWiki. What's really confusing is that these 2 RfCs are not linked as far as I can tell but I am assuming I'm reviewing the correct pair. [[File:Public_Test_Wiki_NewLogo.png|50px|link=mh:Test:TestWiki:Requests_for_Comment/Establishing_an_RfC_process_on_TestWiki|RfC@TestWiki]] --[[User:Imamy|Imamy]] ([[User talk:Imamy|talk]]) 04:14, 11 February 2023 (UTC) |
#: I don't really understand the impact of the custom name (as mentioned in the meta RfC). Also, I don't quite understand what this RfC is saying. I never got around to actually using the testwiki. I think I was nervous that I would break it or something. But if becomes an official project that would generate more helpful documentation and examples, then I think it'll be fantastic. Normally, a wiki wiki in my head looks like there's someone to ask questions about. When I first found TestWiki, I thought it was some kind of construct (not an actual wiki). Now I know it is a wiki but I guess I'm still too new to what bureaucrats and admins can do that I don't even know what I can experiment at TestWiki. What's really confusing is that these 2 RfCs are not linked as far as I can tell but I am assuming I'm reviewing the correct pair. [[File:Public_Test_Wiki_NewLogo.png|50px|link=mh:Test:TestWiki:Requests_for_Comment/Establishing_an_RfC_process_on_TestWiki|RfC@TestWiki]] --[[User:Imamy|Imamy]] ([[User talk:Imamy|talk]]) 04:14, 11 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# To address a point used to justify this RfC; if isolated cases cause too many edits/clog to the Community Portal, those topics could perhaps become subpages instead. A compromise where larger topics are split but not requiring full new mechanics until strictly necessary. --[[User:Raidarr|Raidarr]] ([[User talk:Raidarr|talk]]) 21:09, 8 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== Proposal 3 (Voting) == |
== Proposal 3 (Voting) == |
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# {{support}} [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} This is ideal. [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 15:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} This is ideal. [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 15:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 05:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Syunsyunminmin|Syunsyunminmin]] ([[User talk:Syunsyunminmin|talk]]) 17:56, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Sakura emad|🌸 Sakura emad 💖]] ([[User talk:Sakura emad|talk]]) 16:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Abstain (3) === |
=== Abstain (3) === |
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#{{Abstain}} In the sense that I {{support}} this request but {{oppose}} the statement that unregistered users are able to comment. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 17:38, 29 January 2023 (UTC) |
#{{Abstain}} In the sense that I {{support}} this request but {{oppose}} the statement that unregistered users are able to comment. [[User:BrandonWM|BrandonWM]] ([[User talk:BrandonWM|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/BrandonWM|contribs]]) 17:38, 29 January 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Support}} --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 20:08, 6 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{Support}} --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 20:08, 6 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} Ideal. [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 15:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} Ideal. [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 15:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 05:45, 16 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Syunsyunminmin|Syunsyunminmin]] ([[User talk:Syunsyunminmin|talk]]) 17:56, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} to protect our community's best interest against any corruption. [[User:Sakura emad|🌸 Sakura emad 💖]] ([[User talk:Sakura emad|talk]]) 16:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Abstain (3.1) === |
=== Abstain (3.1) === |
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=== Oppose (3.1) === |
=== Oppose (3.1) === |
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# {{Oppose}} no rationale provided and discourages newcomer participation. If you wish to decrease sock/meatpuppets, CheckUser exists. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{Oppose}} no rationale provided and discourages newcomer participation. If you wish to decrease sock/meatpuppets, CheckUser exists. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# I agree with EricPupper, while this makes sense for something like an RfA where they only last for a week so any account after it started would be very new, either likely a sockpuppet or complete fresh meat, RFCs can sometimes run for months and would actually be a way to lock out real users. For example Collei was created after some current RFCs on Meta, but is allowed to vote on them. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 07:29, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== Proposal 4 (Timeframe) == |
== Proposal 4 (Timeframe) == |
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#{{Support|weak}} I'm more in favor of 7 days, per above. [[User:Blad|Blad]] ([[User talk:Blad|talk]]) 14:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC) |
#{{Support|weak}} I'm more in favor of 7 days, per above. [[User:Blad|Blad]] ([[User talk:Blad|talk]]) 14:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{Support}} --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 20:08, 6 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{Support}} --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 20:08, 6 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 05:46, 16 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Syunsyunminmin|Syunsyunminmin]] ([[User talk:Syunsyunminmin|talk]]) 17:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Sakura emad|🌸 Sakura emad 💖]] ([[User talk:Sakura emad|talk]]) 16:02, 7 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Abstain (4) === |
=== Abstain (4) === |
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# I would support 7 days. [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
# I would support 7 days. [[User:MdsShakil|MdsShakil]] ([[User talk:MdsShakil|talk]]) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{abstain}} [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Oppose (4) === |
=== Oppose (4) === |
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# {{support}} [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 15:02, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} [[User:Ugochimobi|Ugochimobi]] ([[User talk:Ugochimobi|talk]]) 15:02, 10 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} no bureaucracy needed. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
# {{support}} no bureaucracy needed. [[User:EpicPupper|EpicPupper]] ([[User talk:EpicPupper|talk]]) 00:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 05:46, 16 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Syunsyunminmin|Syunsyunminmin]] ([[User talk:Syunsyunminmin|talk]]) 17:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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# {{support}} [[User:Sakura emad|🌸 Sakura emad 💖]] ([[User talk:Sakura emad|talk]]) 16:02, 7 March 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Abstain (5) === |
=== Abstain (5) === |
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=== Oppose (5) === |
=== Oppose (5) === |
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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section </div> |